Pathfinder - Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition - now with A Dance of Masks epilogue DLC (2024)

Improved initiative and mythic Improved initiative are more or less mandatory for every character in Unfair, no exceptions. Maybe less so in lower difficulties, but it is still always nice to have as combat is usually decided by your ability to take out that 1 nasty opponent in turn 1.

Abundant Smite is nice to have when you are using Mark of Justice, maybe less so when your Paladin is the main damage dealer but again it's never a bad idea.

Unrelenting Assault is nothing great, but personally I would rather take it than Mythic Weapon Specialization, and people take Mythic Weapon Specialization for reasons I do not understand.

Average Manatee said:

I did end up with Master Shapeshifter for Seelah's 9th, but still have no idea what you'd fill characters like Greybor or Regill out with (not that I'm using them but I'd like to know what people do as a pure non-magical character).

Click to expand...

And now you know why those characters suck and nobody uses them. Why non rider melees suck in general for this game.

Average Manatee said:

By additional damage procs, you mean stuff like additional elemental effects or precision damage? Maybe the Elemental Barrage-type strats with 4 elemental enchants are back on the menu.

How about Spirited Charge?

Click to expand...

Looks like it works too.

It doesn't work on 'normal' enchants since those add damage in the same roll, but some proc it as a separate source - in A1 you can buy the longspear Death from Above, it does it's 1d4 damage separately from the main blow, and then gets x3 mythic charge damage added on top. Similarly the Living Ram armor.
Both of these damage sources are conditional, so that's probably why they are sourced separately.

So on a charge attack you add (3x3xMR)d6 divine per attack.

Should also work with the x5 cavalier capstone and pounce.

Unrelenting Assault is great with TTT (doubled bonus damage). Also it already applies in the surprise round, so getting a stack takes shorter then it might appear.

Parabalus said:

Average Manatee said:

By additional damage procs, you mean stuff like additional elemental effects or precision damage? Maybe the Elemental Barrage-type strats with 4 elemental enchants are back on the menu.

How about Spirited Charge?

Click to expand...

Looks like it works too.

It doesn't work on 'normal' enchants since those add damage in the same roll, but some proc it as a separate source - in A1 you can buy the longspear Death from Above, it does it's 1d4 damage separately from the main blow, and then gets x3 mythic charge damage added on top. Similarly the Living Ram armor.
Both of these damage sources are conditional, so that's probably why they are sourced separately.

So on a charge attack you add (3x3xMR)d6 divine per attack.

Should also work with the x5 cavalier capstone and pounce.

Click to expand...

Hmm, weird. Yes, I've been abusing stuff like that with my chargers, but since 2 patches or so it no longer works for me.
Generally all extra damage instances have been rolled into main attack damage proc.

I thought it was an Owlcat change... or was it TTT?

Average Manatee said:

Going over ones I don't have:

- Leading Strike, is it actually any good? It seems like something that'd only work in real time (since every character will hit simultaneously), while in turn based it's practically useless. And I do boss fights in turn based. EDIT: nvm, it probably works great in turnbased when riding a pet, right? If it works like that then it should be one of the best mythics and taken early. Almost like Elemental Barrage used to be.

Click to expand...

No, its nothing like EB was. In Turn Based mode its usually only 1 activation per round. Can be decent with a pet, yes - provided that you have a charger and a pouncing multi-attack pet. Preferably a raptor or a smilodon. Leopard at worst.
If the pets don't pounce charge, they usually only get 1 attack after movement.
This has good synergy with Royal Guard's Barding, btw. - also 10d6 per attack on charge.

Come to think of it, could be decent on my Great Cleaving shifter (since it would apply the mark on multiple enemies per Cleave).

Average Manatee said:

- Unrelenting Assault, just too slow to ramp up. Worst case late game boss fights in this game take 3 turns, usually 1-2.

Click to expand...

Unrelenting Assault is great with TTT (doubled bonus damage). Also it already applies in the surprise round, so getting a stack takes shorter then it might appear.

Average Manatee said:

- Improved initiative I probably should take but I don't even have the base one and mythic requires it.

Click to expand...

You probably should, if your class does not include Initiative boosts.

Average Manatee said:

I did end up with Master Shapeshifter for Seelah's 9th, but still have no idea what you'd fill characters like Greybor or Regill out with (not that I'm using them but I'd like to know what people do as a pure non-magical character).

Click to expand...

You mentioned before trouble activating it. No Brown Fur Transmuter or any alchemist in the party?

The thing with Unrelenting Assault is that it is quite good early on because it's a significant damage boost in longer fights, when longer fights tend to be the most important ones. Also it's not until later on in the game that it becomes more rocket tag-like and even important fights are decided quite quickly.

The issue, as Hap pointed out last time we discussed this ability, is that early on you typically want to get other, build-defining, abilities for your mythic picks.

Haplo said:

Hmm, weird. Yes, I've been abusing stuff like that with my chargers, but since 2 patches or so it no longer works for me.
Generally all extra damage instances have been rolled into main attack damage proc.

I thought it was an Owlcat change... or was it TTT?

Click to expand...

Must be a mod change.

Haplo said:

No, its nothing like EB was. In Turn Based mode its usually only 1 activation per round. Can be decent with a pet, yes - provided that you have a charger and a pouncing multi-attack pet. Preferably a raptor or a smilodon. Leopard at worst.
If the pets don't pounce charge, they usually only get 1 attack after movement.

Click to expand...

You can move during the surprise round and then start round 1 with full attack from both character and pet. Or you can fail to kill your target in 1 round and start the next round with full attack. It's not amazing but not small amount of damage either, being left with that tiny bit of health in your target is always annoying.

scytheavatar said:

Improved initiative and mythic Improved initiative are more or less mandatory for every character in Unfair, no exceptions. Maybe less so in lower difficulties, but it is still always nice to have as combat is usually decided by your ability to take out that 1 nasty opponent in turn 1.

Click to expand...

I play only boss fights on Unfair/TB and its not too big of an issue. Rest of game is played on Hard/RT because I don't want to double the game length and I also don't want to need to micro every little thing or dying from missing one little buff instead of cruising through at 3x gamespeed. So far I've not really had any problems.

scytheavatar said:

And now you know why those characters suck and nobody uses them. Why non rider melees suck in general for this game.

Click to expand...

Aye. At the very least Owlcat should really make everyone equally respeccable to level 1. Maybe as a NG+ bonus, they already basically have those for DLC.

Haplo said:

You mentioned before trouble activating it. No Brown Fur Transmuter or any alchemist in the party?

Click to expand...

Not running with mercs and there's not really any great option for an NPC that can class into them. But I did find that level 4 ranger spell which could keep it active so it works.

Average Manatee said:

Going over ones I don't have:

- Leading Strike, is it actually any good? It seems like something that'd only work in real time (since every character will hit simultaneously), while in turn based it's practically useless. And I do boss fights in turn based. EDIT: nvm, it probably works great in turnbased when riding a pet, right? If it works like that then it should be one of the best mythics and taken early. Almost like Elemental Barrage used to be.

Click to expand...

I use TTT mod, but I don't think it changes it. I play in RTwP and I like Leading Strike reasonably well. My initial concept was putting it on a cleaver to flag all enemies for my backline archers. While that works, it truly shines on a dual wielder when attacking a durable single target. The repeated hits means it stays up and is repeatedly triggered by other party members. It's a tremendous increase to DPS.

Parabalus said:

What's the go-to level 0 respec mod for companions? Toy box?

Click to expand...

It used to be Barley's respec mod

So apparently I cannot use gloves of the sacred beast to buff my pet's melee attacks, as natural weapons do not count as unarmed.
That is sad and ghey.

I have some misgivings about the whole time travel part of the the Aeon path as I think there would be more consequences other than Drezen not falling, but I do like how you can go around and ask people about Drezen and they give a completely different account after you meddle with the time line.
There's even a new Storyteller reading about Radiance, which is a nice touch.

Yosharian said:

Parabalus said:

What's the go-to level 0 respec mod for companions? Toy box?

Click to expand...

It used to be Barley's respec mod

Click to expand...

Looks like it's not there yet for the current version.

Average Manatee said:

Haplo said:

You mentioned before trouble activating it. No Brown Fur Transmuter or any alchemist in the party?

Click to expand...

Not running with mercs and there's not really any great option for an NPC that can class into them. But I did find that level 4 ranger spell which could keep it active so it works.

Click to expand...

Woljif's typical build is ES4/Vivisectionist 16.
Of course, there are many other options.

Haplo said:

Woljif's typical build is ES4/Vivisectionist 16.
Of course, there are many other options.

Click to expand...

Probably better than continuing ES but losing 4 levels of progression makes me cringe so hard.

They really fixed the crusade mode nicely, when you get ahead of the curve you enemies flee and you get full loot.

Sped up animations are great too.

Average Manatee said:

Haplo said:

Woljif's typical build is ES4/Vivisectionist 16.
Of course, there are many other options.

Click to expand...

Probably better than continuing ES but losing 4 levels of progression makes me cringe so hard.

Click to expand...

Its not really lost, though. Finesse Training, Debilitating Injury, Uncanny Dodge, even some Mage Armor and Mirror Image casts. Alchemist gains little from last 4 levels.

Haplo said:

Its not really lost, though. Finesse Training, Debilitating Injury, Uncanny Dodge, even some Mage Armor and Mirror Image casts. Alchemist gains little from last 4 levels.

Click to expand...

It's not the last 4 levels but being 4 levels behind the entire game that hurts. That's getting spells like Echolocation or being able to offload some of Nenio's haste castings onto Woljif practically a whole chapter later. Also Transformation is nice to have ASAP if you plan to (ab-)use it on a part with a lot of mid-BAB characters (and of course pets), would rather not wait until level 20 for it and would rather have the ability to really spam it on everyone.

Parabalus said:

They really fixed the crusade mode nicely, when you get ahead of the curve you enemies flee and you get full loot.

Sped up animations are great too.

Click to expand...

Still really annoying how there's like 3 or 4 different strategic views with slightly different interactions and options available depending on how you access it. And loading screens.

Can anyone tell me where the -2 from Angelic Halo is coming from?

-2 from piercing rays checks out. Unfailing Beacon will increase the DC of the spell (since I targetted myself), but I verified that this is properly increasing her DC from 45 to 47, it shouldn't be applying a -2 to their saves. I don't see anything about Angelic Halo or Halo's Holy Aura that should apply another -2 to saving throws?

Using (non-alchemist) bombs vs. swarms is a meme, that's a last resort option when you're fighting level 2 swarms. Torches aren't much better.

Not sure what level you are but around Ivory Sanctum should be the point where you've found a few rods to up your magic game and can either do selective magic and just spam nukes on your party or have some safer spells to use. Ascendent Element is actually not that essential for spell casters to get immediately, if you can use metamagic you'll just overpower their resistance for more damage than you would trying to ignore it. Of course both is best if you're trying to make a dedicated nuker.

It's Leper's Smile where I find you've really got not much capability to damage them through those resistance. Past that swarms just don't scale as fast as your damage output to them does and their damage to you stays fairly constant.

scytheavatar said:

And now you know why those characters suck and nobody uses them. Why non rider melees suck in general for this game.

Click to expand...

Just the guy poasting shots of destroying Unfair with them for four months.

Reg has Domains via Godclaw Order. They're good, especially at Swift speed. Main reason to play Cleric. Unlike Cleric he gets up to three of them.

He also has a unique Aura that gives +3 Morale AB/Dam/AC. AoE is good. Morale AC is rare. Choose Nobility Domain for (essentially infinite use) Inspiring Command and that's +5 rare AoE AC (along with Insight AB/Dam which isn't trivial).

People who don't know the game suck.

Greybor doesn't suck either since Slayer is an outstanding class but he's often redundant with either MC or other companions or with Aru if you know how to take advantage of Slayer skills side.

Average Manatee said:

Absolutely hate it when enemies run away and I have to chase them across the whole level.

Click to expand...

I don't have to. Why is that?

Average Manatee said:

... what? Are you loading up on feats just to give her a small chance of applying -2 to enemy stats? That's pretty silly. Seelah's job is to kill things. Raising Archon's to a DC of like 25 and giving the enemy a 10% chance of -2 to their stats rather than just a 5% chance of critical failure is so not worth it. Can't take initiative because I wasn't able to fit the base version into my build. Maybe I could have dropped combat reflexes but AoO while flat footed is nice...

Click to expand...

+4 DC is not small. Depending on difficulty it can double the chances of landing or reduce the chances of missing by up to 80%. Once you get Mythic she'll be high 20s and tops out at low 30s (and there are ways to get it higher if you get creative), which is good back-up for your Divine source in case it misses.

-2 AoE to AB/Saves/AC. You guys all ji*zz your pants for +2 AB from Mutation Warrior. That -2 AC alone is +2 AB for your whole team and that doesn't even get to the -2 on Saves (+2 DC for whole team) and -2 AB (+2 AC for whole team).

And it's a long-lasting passive (no action econ needed, even Free Action) effect. Pretty much uniquely you can even put on + Evo DC items to cast it then replace them and the DC stays high for whole duration.

Seelah's job is *not* to kill things, although she's fine at it. Her job is to get Mark on and tank with Fear Immunity, and she does it well. You have more than enough companions who can kill things and usually MC is main killer.

If you get Mythic Initiative she won't be flat-footed much, and with Heavy Armor and Tower Shield being Flat-footed doesn't have much effect on her AC either.

Seelah taking the Defensive Mythics from TTT/Dark Codex and Tower Shield at lvl 6 is a satisfying experience, with a Monk cherry on top.

For Wolj racing to ES 12 for Double Debilitation is also a very satisfying and powerful thing to do. He can still grab 8 Vivi levels after that if you like for distributing Shield spells or whatever, which is something I've done. But just staying in ES for the added Debilitation bump at 16 and a couple more Advanced Rogue Talents while developing some of his casting abilities (I like Transmutation with Darven's hat for some Slows and Obsidian Flows, with Hellfire capacity late) is also solid, especially with some of the added spells mods offer.