Pathfinder - Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Enhanced Edition - now with A Dance of Masks epilogue DLC (2024)

Delterius - Yay or Nay?

Owlcat Games

Let's start the week with a great cosplay by JackieUniverse from Reddit. And we use the Mythic Trick: Persuasion to tell you that this week will go awesome!

Average Manatee said:

Ahh, K, Flamewarden and Stormwalker? Yeah they are pretty sh*t, and Espionage Expert should be way above them since it does get Ranger's Bond. I thought you were talking primarily about EE/FB.

For all intents and purposes if you really squint hard then Ranger and Demonslayer are equally good since Ranger has nothing else to really spend swift actions on except Instant Enemy and you can rest spam almost everywhere. And Espionage Expert is the same as a Demonslayer or Ranger who is taking Ranger's Bond. So they could all theoretically be rated S-tier. Of course for player sanity taking Demonslayer and not resting and rebuffing every single battle is vastly preferably and therefore deserves a better rating.

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This isn't a tier kind of game. Every archetype has some niche things going on that can come up big depending on what you need.

I did a melee Flamewarden that multiplied the Burst dice in P:K (I think it also gets a rez and Fireball?). Stormwalker gets a teleport? I'd have to look into it again. Too many pets devolves into an even worse Summoning spam. More trouble than its worth.

Big benefit of Espionage Expert is how good of a Scout it makes without any work. Bizarre that it gives up Camouflage though.

EDIT: I looked at the game and Flamewarden gets Scorching Ray which is a very good Standard Action for a character that can tack on damage like Ranger, and especially good with Aeonbane which triggers on each Ray. Quasi-Pounce vs Touch AC on turns where you need to move if you're playing Ranged, or gives you a ranged attack if you're melee to take out casters. Burning Renewal heals ability damage and conditions when the Warden takes Fire damage (even if that damage is resisted by Resist) which can be supplied by the Flamewarden itself since it gets Flamestrike and Volcanic Storm (which also applies Difficult Terrain). Open fight with Storm to lay down Terrain and hit team (which has Resist, Communal up) to turn on Enforced Vigor while hitting enemies for 30 or so. Also gets Breath of Life as an ability so no slot needed always up and a couple unique effects late where you blow up in Fire if you die that only hits enemies while giving minor Heal to team, then at 20 gets auto-self-rez if you die once per rest, which is a unique effect in game as far as I'm aware. Probably best fit for that is melee paired with a high crit multiplier weapon to get most out of Flaming Burst on Weapon. Gives up Bond (which you can get from Aru) and Evasion (which it can get from Ring).

Stormwalker gets Full Round (which can be clunky depending) but fifty-foot range Teleport followed by one free attack at nearest target at full BAB that goes up to two shots later. Could be good Assassin to interrupt spells in RTwP (I'm betting that the full-round makes this suck though). Gives up Bond and Quarry which again may be no big deal depending if you've got someone else in party (Aru or Greybor) to apply Big Game Gloves. Archery only so seems like you'd want to go Snap Shot Stealth build using teleport to set up positioning.

Both get the free elemental (and Magic) weapon that upgrades to Burst at lvl 12.

CthuluIsSpy said:

IHaveHugeNick said:

Some of the most annoying fights involved those assasin-type demons with pitchfork weapon, they just go balls deep on my MC every time.

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Especially the Infiltrators.
Why yes, teleport from out of line of sight and one turn kill Ember, sure why not. That's not some bullsh*t at all.
Its bad enough that Babaus have stupidly high sneak that allows them to be undetected, even with See Invisibility active (unless the game just spawns them in with scripted nonsense, like Midnight fane), but did they have to teleport as well?

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Ember shouldn't be that close to the front line.

Do you know how to configure your formation?

OK, take that back, Threshold is absolutely the worst dungeon in this game. It's like 4 or 5 boss-level trashmobs of demons that you have to do in a row without the ability to rest, and each mob is harder than any of the previous bosses I've faced in the game by a mile.

I crawled to Vile Devastater, and I've even taken him down on my second try, but I'm raped by the locust things after as my party is all out of spells and buffs and I obviously didn't prepare going in. Honestly, I'm dreading it, but I might need to redo the whole level. chapter 5 was so easy that I thought I could bring whoever I wanted for funsies, but I have Nenio, Demon Archer Lady (forget her name), Soseil, Ulbriq, Seelah, and my mc Demonslayer. Might need a few more Guarded Hearths. Either that, or rerun the level and not let Soseil die as the monsters are easy to kite back to a single guarded hearth, but I stupidly let Soseil die as I thought, "there couldn't possibly be 3 more massive mobs with no rest, right?"

Honestly, I was really loving this game, but Owlcat seemingly has to sh*t the bed on the landing. This sh*t's just annoying. I do have about 2.5 million dollars, though, if anyone wants to recommend a few mercs.

Desiderius said:

CthuluIsSpy said:

IHaveHugeNick said:

Some of the most annoying fights involved those assasin-type demons with pitchfork weapon, they just go balls deep on my MC every time.

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Especially the Infiltrators.
Why yes, teleport from out of line of sight and one turn kill Ember, sure why not. That's not some bullsh*t at all.
Its bad enough that Babaus have stupidly high sneak that allows them to be undetected, even with See Invisibility active (unless the game just spawns them in with scripted nonsense, like Midnight fane), but did they have to teleport as well?

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Ember shouldn't be that close to the front line.

Do you know how to configure your formation?

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She was right at the back. She was no where near the front line.
Oddly enough, if Seelah is in the party they'll go for her instead unless Ember is closer, so I guess the AI factors in alignments?

The_Mask said:

And we use the Mythic Trick: Persuasion to tell you that this week will go awesome!

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what a weird way to tell us to kill ourselves

Yosharian said:

Just get Last Stand on everyone and you're good to go

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I do quite hate how much of an easy fall back last stand is. But it works so well...

I have finally been playing this.

I tried it a while ago but got bored. Also annoyed at the orc bulldyke paladin(I'm told you can kill/get rid of her eventually).

This isn't a bad game but it is incredibly more woke than Kingmaker. It suffers more intensely of the horrible trope which I call "goodness is fa*ggotry". It seems most every character of the good alignment is some sort of annoying diverse gender bending rainbow figure or gurl power feminist activist. The fa*g black cleric of shelyn and the orc lesbian couple the most significant. Makes the lawful good side insufferable - as much as the "canonical" good party in Kingmaker with the orc and elven couple in open relationship, ssslay queen barbarian girl with gigantic sword and simp bissexual cleric who is actually a spy of the evil nymph.

As in Kingmaker playing evil or neutral is the only way to make the story side tolerable. Except this time even the neutral and evil characters are fa*ggots. Oh well, guess a mostly player created characters party and get the annoying green dyke dead?

I hope they tone it down for warhammer, otherwise embracing chaos will be the way.

Yeah, it is a bit woke.
The only straight woman companion is a half-elf degenerate who is very unsubtle about her hobbies.
Greybor and Regil are alright though, even though they are kind of dickish, and we do have Daeran who's evil and polysexual, so its not as if everyone who's not straight is a villain.
On the flip side, the good guys are also absolute idiots. Spending time dealing with the Crusader high command will allow you to understand why they've been getting their arses beat. Especially after Act 3.

I dunno if its Owlcat to blame, or Paizo, because like WoTC they do seem to be pretty woke.

I'm going demon then legend as someone suggested to me.

Apparently those are the only mythic paths you can play without being so overwhelmed with fa*ggotry that you risk getting aids through your computer screen.

IHaveHugeNick said:

It's a pain in the ass when it randomly happens in a fight which is still easily winnable, but I had to reload to avoid using a scroll. It's like, why are you wasting my time, game.

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To get you to play better. Playing better is fun.

Zboj Lamignat said:

I think you're making a mistake by looking for some logic behind it. The game just spazzes out like with many other aspects, I had the thing where everyone suddenly just ganged on Ember completely disregarding AOOs etc as well.

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Your free AoOs didn't kill them? You aren't using Difficult Terrain or control spells? They can only attack stuff they see - do you use Stealth at all? Invis?

There's a game here to play when you decide to.

CthuluIsSpy said:

if Seelah is in the party they'll go for her instead unless Ember is closer, so I guess the AI factors in alignments?

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I noticed that often when I played her as a tank, but I figured it was because she was the only one I let them see at first. But they did tend to stay on her even after the rest of the party had joined the fray.

Desiderius said:

Zboj Lamignat said:

I think you're making a mistake by looking for some logic behind it. The game just spazzes out like with many other aspects, I had the thing where everyone suddenly just ganged on Ember completely disregarding AOOs etc as well.

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Your free AoOs didn't kill them? You aren't using Difficult Terrain or control spells? They can only attack stuff they see - do you use Stealth at all? Invis?

There's a game here to play when you decide to.

CthuluIsSpy said:

if Seelah is in the party they'll go for her instead unless Ember is closer, so I guess the AI factors in alignments?

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I noticed that often when I played her as a tank, but I figured it was because she was the only one I let them see at first. But they did tend to stay on her even after the rest of the party had joined the fray.

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I've seen it happen during gank events where they just teleport dudes around your party. If Seelah is present and closer to them than Ember they will go after Seelah, even if Woljif and my mounted MC is closer.
Which is fine, because she's a tank with last stand and I'd rather they beat her up than Ember.

It's obviously not an intended behaviour and it completely bricked last attempted playthrough for me in tandem with another bug (which can turn some characters immortal).

But I'm waiting for posts about "opportunity cost" of constantly casting spells that you shouldn't need just so that you can stop the game from completely sh*tting itself and only becoming ridiculously easy, instead.

Zboj Lamignat said:

For someone who does so much posturing you have surprising problems with basic logic. I won't be using invisibility on character that shouldn't need it just so that the game becomes not broken and not absurdly easy since enemies can't stop constantly suiciding themselves.

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It isn't a posture. I don't use Invis on Ember because I don't remember the last time she got attacked, but if for some reason I were having that issue it's one thing I'd try.

Mommy, mommy, they're attacking my squishy casters, make them stop, it's illogical! It's not illogical, I spend half my time talking about how to take out casters *because they're dangerous* and I make them a priority if I see them too.

Stop getting games nerfed because you're too lazy to play them. You're f*cking it up for everyone else.

Cpt. Dallas said:

Is the Mephistopheles fight supposed to be winnable at all? I'm thinking it's level scaled. 20 summons identical to MC level 20/6M. If I buff/summon before then his alpha strike is 4x as damaging and almost entire party goes down immediately. If I don't it's more drawn out but by the time the simultaneous firestorm/sirocco hits I'm done. And of course the layout is a cutscene so no character placement.
Edit: and 148 total hellfire rays in one action for 38-64 dam each.

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I think that happens if you go to the wrong location first? He'll ambush you if you try to go to Kenabres without him (welching on his deal) but not if you honor the agreement to meet him first. Devil thing.

Could be wrong because I did get ambushed and he wiped me because I didn't have Last Stand. That's the one place in the game where I'd say it's definitely worth it if you're playing tinman (minimal reloads) but again as with about everything else there are ways around it. After reload thankfully he did waste his time casting Sirocco and got ganked but first time he used real nukes.

Cpt. Dallas said:

Is the Mephistopheles fight supposed to be winnable at all? I'm thinking it's level scaled. 20 summons identical to MC level 20/6M. If I buff/summon before then his alpha strike is 4x as damaging and almost entire party goes down immediately. If I don't it's more drawn out but by the time the simultaneous firestorm/sirocco hits I'm done. And of course the layout is a cutscene so no character placement.
Edit: and 148 total hellfire rays in one action for 38-64 dam each.

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Yes, it's quite winnable

Desiderius said:

Cpt. Dallas said:

Is the Mephistopheles fight supposed to be winnable at all? I'm thinking it's level scaled. 20 summons identical to MC level 20/6M. If I buff/summon before then his alpha strike is 4x as damaging and almost entire party goes down immediately. If I don't it's more drawn out but by the time the simultaneous firestorm/sirocco hits I'm done. And of course the layout is a cutscene so no character placement.
Edit: and 148 total hellfire rays in one action for 38-64 dam each.

Click to expand...

I think that happens if you go to the wrong location first? He'll ambush you if you try to go to Kenabres without him (welching on his deal) but not if you honor the agreement to meet him first. Devil thing.

Could be wrong because I did get ambushed and he wiped me because I didn't have Last Stand. That's the one place in the game where I'd say it's definitely worth it if you're playing tinman (minimal reloads) but again as with about everything else there are ways around it. After reload thankfully he did waste his time casting Sirocco and got ganked but first time he used real nukes.

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This is an azata run ('daring' difficulty) after the dragon rescue quest in the fleshmarkets. I tried before Iz and then again after. I had PCs running hither and yon and he had nearly whole damn azata island covered in lava and sirrocos. It looks like the hellfire rays are keyed to Last Stand, with the # fired going up when it triggers.

Edit: 'Wind of Change' is the Azata 'level 9' Mythic challenge. That explains that.